Sorry PJH I didn't mean to be disrespectful-I guess I was just frustrated. And I certainly didn't want to disparage people nor you for using machines in any way. As a landscaper I embrace only too gratefully lawnmowers and power augers to help plant, and maintain, my customers landscapes. So I'm sorry I didn't word my questions/comments better. Thank you for taking the time to so nicely answer my question-and put me in my place :-) Phil Aw, Phil, didn't mean to put you in your place, either - not at all. We all approach our baking differently, and I know we all respect one another. What I respect most of all is the right of each of us to choose what we want to do in our own kitchens - as I've said before - the Baking Police don't exist! I hope you figure out a way to thoroughly knead that brioche dough; personally, I don't have the strength in my hands/arms like I used to. Which is another reason I embrace machines - they let people like my 83year-old mom continue to bake bread, as she has her whole life. So, chacun a son gout, right? (And if I spelled that right it's a miracle!) Thanks for staying connecged here, Phil - have fun. PJH

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