PJ, I noticed in the whole wheat recipe you list "lukewarm" water and milk, but not in the white pain de mie. Is that an oversight, or should the water and milk be lukewarm for the white as well? Also, by lukewarm do you mean between 120-130 degrees? Sorry to be such a nit-picker but I want to be able to do it right the first time! Thanks for your help and I agree with Lisa when she says, "What a perfect looking loaf of bread". Good luck on getting the hubby to change from store bought!!! Sorry, Karen, I forget to be careful writing the recipes sometimes, I do this so much... lukewarm (about 105°F) helps the rising go faster, but cool is cool, too. It's no big deal; don't stress. Make the water and milk warm, like as warm as you'd feed a baby milk from a bottle. A short zap in the microwave will do it. As for my husband, the Wonder Bread fan - in 32 years of marriage, I've learned not to try to change his mind about things that really don't matter. You know the thing about picking your battles... Right now I've actually got him eating "Artisan Bread in 5 MInutes a Day" bread - if you haven't seen that book, see if it's in your library. GREAT method for crusty no-knead bread. I'll blog it in March sometime... Good luck with your pain de mie! PJH

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